"Pete Farnham" <pfarnham3423_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4i7gfiF2h8tcU1_at_individual.net...
>
> "True Blue" <whig_at_yahoo.com> wrote
>
>> Yes, "two wings of the same totalitarian bird" is about right.
>>
>
> Only to the uneducated and the ignorant; who are usually right wing
> fundamentalists like yourselves.
And simpletons perhaps? Like me? Let's face it, there's nothing worse to
Idiot Savants like yourself, than those who just see the simple boring truth
is there? Intellectualism for the sake of intellectualism is an end in
itself for the likes of you isn't it? (see self-preening below)
>
> Fascism and Conservatism
>
> There is some controversy about the ideological impact of the conservative
> element in fascism. European fascism drew on existing anti-modernist
> conservatism, and on the conservative reaction to communism and
> 19th-century
> socialism. Conservative thinkers such as historian Oswald Spengler
> provided
> much of the world view (Weltanschauung) of the Nazi movement. However,
> traditionalist, monarchist, and Roman Catholic conservatives often
> despised the
> fascist mass movements, and the personality cult around the leader. In
> Britain,
> the conservative Daily Mail enthusiastically backed Sir Oswald Mosley's
> British
> Union of Fascists, and part of the Conservative Party supported closer
> ties
> with Nazi Germany. When defeat in World War II ideologically and
> historically
> discredited fascism, almost all Western conservatives tried to distance
> themselves from it. Nevertheless, many post-war Western conservatives
> continued
> to admire the Franco regime in Spain, clearly conservative but also
> fascist in
> origin.
Notwithstanding the fact that the British trade union movement has never
faltered in it's admiration of the mass-murderers of the Soviet empire from
1920 onwards. The revelation of the brutality of this regime has not
quenched this enthusiasm one iota.
With the end of the Franco regime and Portugal's Estado Novo in the
> 1970s, the relationship between conservatism and classical European
> fascism was
> further weakened.
>
> Militarism is perhaps the most striking similarity between Fascism and
> contemporary American conservatism. Of course, there are many liberals in
> America who support the military and even call for increased military
> spending.
> Even so, American liberals are traditionally more skeptical of the
> military
> than American conservatives. It is often said that Neoconservatives,
> like Hitler, see the military as a paradigm for problem solving
> (even in situations that may render militarism impractical or unethical).
Not at all like the Left's militaristic USSR and Mao's China?
>
> The relationship of fascism to right-wing ideologies (including some that
> are
> described as neo-fascist) is still an issue for conservatives and their
> opponents. Especially in Germany, there is a constant exchange of ideology
> and
> persons, between the influential national-conservative movement, and self-
> identified national-socialist groups. In Italy too, there is no clear line
> between conservatives, and movements inspired by the Italian Fascism of
> the
> 1920s to 1940s, including the Alleanza Nazionale which is member of the
> governing coalition under premier Silvio Berlusconi. Conservative
> attitudes to
> the 20th-century fascist regimes are still an issue.
"which is member of the
governing coalition under premier Silvio Berlusconi"??
Oh dear, Silvio Berlusconi is not the Itailian premier is he? Which makes me
think you may have stolen somebody else's post for the sake of your
"intellectual" diatribe: http://austin.craigslist.org/pol/178382942.html or
are you comm-178382942_at_craigslist.org ? In which case what does the "comm"
stand for?
>
>
> Under an ideological definition of Socialism ? for example one stating
> that
> only a system adhering to the principles of Marxism can qualify as
> socialist ?
> there is a well-defined gap between Nazism and socialism. Nazi leaders
> were
> opposed to the Marxist idea of class conflict
No, Hitler's hatred of the Lander proves otherwise. (see Mein Kampf)
and opposed the idea that
> capitalism should be abolished and that workers should control the means
> of
> production.
Yes, because Hitler was part of the audience that witnessed the disaster
that unfolded in the USSR when the capitalist (read capable) sector were
liquidated by the boneheaded Lenin and Stalin.
For those who consider class conflict and the abolition of
> capitalism as essential components of socialism, these factors alone are
> sufficient to categorize "National Socialism" as non-socialist.
See above. Joseph Geobbels was one of the first champagne socialists. "No
decent National Socialist should own more that one home" - unless you're
Geobbels, of course, and then you have six. (see New Labour)
>
> For socialists who consider democracy a core tenet of socialism, Nazism is
> often seen as a polar opposite of their views. Primo Levi argued that
> there was
> an important distinction between the policies of Nazi Germany and those of
> the
> Soviet Union or the People's Republic of China: while they were all
> arguably
> totalitarian, and all had their idea of what kind of parasitic classes or
> races
> society ought to be rid of, Levi saw the Nazis assigning a place given by
> birth
> (since one is born into a certain race), while the Soviets and Chinese
> determined their enemies according to their social position
..or potential for capability. The more capable, the better to disappear.
(which people may
> change within their life). There are many other philosophical differences
> betwen Nazism and Marxism.
>
> There were ideological shades of opinion within the Nazi Party,
> particularly
> before their seizure of power in 1933, but a central tenet of the party
> was
> always the leader principle or Führerprinzip.
...unlike Mao or Stalin!!!!
The Nazi Party did not have party
> congresses in which policy was deliberated upon and concessions made to
> different factions.
...of course, the congresses of the Soviets and Chinese were models of
democracy!!! LOL....you imbecile!!
What mattered most was what the leader, Adolf Hitler,
> thought and decreed. Those who held opinions which were at variance with
> Hitler's either learned to keep quiet or were purged, particularly after
> 1933.
> This is compared to the behavior of certain Communist states such as that
> of
> Stalin in the Soviet Union or Mao Zedong in China.
No purges there then!!!
>
> Critics of this view point out that Mussolini imprisoned Antonio Gramsci
> from
> 1926 until 1934, after Gramsci, a leader of the Italian Communist Party
> and
> leading Marxist intellectual, tried to create a common front among the
> political left and the workers, in order to resist and overthrow fascism.
> Other
> Italian Communist leaders like Palmiro Togliatti went into exile and
> fought for
> the Republic in Spain.
All in all, a great post. For all the wrong reasons. Thanks for conforming
to the Liberal stereotype is such an embarrassing and overt fashion.
Received on Wed Jul 19 2006 - 13:57:16 PDT